- Jul 30, 2007
- 8,253
- 56
- 0
- School/Org
- Newsbot U
- City
- Barre
- State
- VT
Classic PE modus operandi. Cash in then cashout. Better returns than the stock market. Reminds me of the RE investor groups that were flipping houses in the Phoenix area pre-2008.Flip! I wonder what the next group is going to do with it, and what their time horizon is for flipping this again?
With all indications pointing to even more activity in 2020, many optometrists are wondering what to expect and what impact it will have on our profession.
This course will review private equity transactions this past year, discuss how current issues affecting optometry could lead to more private equity activity, and examine where this may lead in the future, all within the context of whether private equity is good or bad for Optometry.
Sure is. Buy with leverage, then flip. The PE way.Classic PE modus operandi. Cash in then cashout. Better returns than the stock market. Reminds me of the RE investor groups that were flipping houses in the Phoenix area pre-2008.
They wanted a five year contract for me to work, that was fine but the difference in what I would make over the five years as an owner vs as an employee
Same here.I was approached "cursorily" by a PE firm. Based on rough data from my practice they threw a number at me that was more than what I could probably expect to sell my practice for on the open market but not enough to make me walk away. They wanted a five year contract for me to work, that was fine but the difference in what I would make over the five years as an owner vs as an employee plus what they were offering for the sale was negligible. I would essentially end up in the exact same place five years down the road. So not worth it.
If I was 63, maybe would be worth it.
But as I have said before.....there is a number that will make me walk away.
So if there's a PE firm (or any buyer) out there what wants to make an offer that knocks my socks off and a couple of pairs out of my drawer.....I'm listening.
I have a friend that is currently in that situation. He initially liked the idea that he could off load the management, but now it has taken a turn that he is not loving. And he is working much harder in the exam room for less pay, then before the PE deal. Sounds like the honeymoon is over.
These are the things I want to hear about.......from docs who have sold and now let's hear their stories.
How is he working much harder? Where did all the new patients come from that he wasn't seeing before?
Joe, can you tell us more about what your friend doesn't like?
There are pro's and con's. I've now represented about a dozen doctors through PE transactions involving several different PE entities. I know how it works. For instance, you have some leverage. Whether the number big enough to make you walk away is attainable is unknown if you don't counter. They tend to leave a fair amount on the table. If you don't ask for it, you don't get it. The 5-years. It's negotiable.I was approached "cursorily" by a PE firm. Based on rough data from my practice they threw a number at me that was more than what I could probably expect to sell my practice for on the open market but not enough to make me walk away. They wanted a five year contract for me to work, that was fine but the difference in what I would make over the five years as an owner vs as an employee plus what they were offering for the sale was negligible. I would essentially end up in the exact same place five years down the road. So not worth it.
If I was 63, maybe would be worth it.
But as I have said before.....there is a number that will make me walk away.
So if there's a PE firm (or any buyer) out there what wants to make an offer that knocks my socks off and a couple of pairs out of my drawer.....I'm listening.
Adam--
Have y'all considered having a 'counter-point' to PE? For example, a Fred Frost, who is a champion of independent PP?
Just about every article/marketing piece I've seen on PE, is written by or hosted by PE. Not exactly fair or balanced. It's like hosting a CL symposium, and only inviting Ciba....I wonder what they would say?
We don't seem to have any voice on the 'other' side of the equation. Seems like most of the stories I hear are muffled, or under the radar type stuff. ROB seems to publish why PE is great about every week. I think the general feel of the industry is woe is me, and this is my only option.
For those in the know: Do we have an organization(AOA?) interested in being the counterpoint?
Every single organization, business, vendor, and doctor is and will be changed by this trend over the next 10 years.
Seems to me there is only 1 voice speaking.
There are pro's and con's. I've now represented about a dozen doctors through PE transactions involving several different PE entities. I know how it works. For instance, you have some leverage. Whether the number big enough to make you walk away is attainable is unknown if you don't counter. They tend to leave a fair amount on the table. If you don't ask for it, you don't get it. The 5-years. It's negotiable.
PE cannot make money without offices. ODs have the leverage. They need to know how to use it. Someone representing you could lead to a significant increase in the multiplier if you've got the right kind of office. One of my clients received $2.5M MORE than the initial PE offer.
I'm considering developing something. Al Cleinman does an excellent 1-Day meeting for those considering selling (or buying) a practice through his Performance Partners business courses. He has PE speakers, along with bankers, as part of it, but also covers a lot of other transactions/strategies. I've contributed an hour at each on essential contract terms and have been adding more about PE sales, but I'm probably going to spend even more time this coming year speaking about some of the particulars and unique characteristics of PE sales.I am always open to hosting a webinar (or even a talk on CEwire, if a lecture is COPE-able); any person who wants to present "A counterpoint to PE" just needs to step forward and volunteer. You've got all of ODwire's resources at your disposal -- the same level of marketing and noisemaking that we'd give to any other event.
Just contact me.
Yup, can't argue with you on this one because I agree with your sentiments. Maybe we are just cynical or maybe we are onto them? Who knows, but I am not drinking the Kool Aid being currently offered.OK..so I'm going to chime in...I am 63 and I think about the future alot.
Having suffered the flood...and wondering about who could/would buy my practice...anyone who says they are not interested is a well...sort of fibber...
It would do zero good to do a point counterpoint because no one can do the counterpoint if they haven't taken the bait.
Those who have taken the bait are now employees and so far, most are pretty tight lipped about their transaction.
Perhaps there is a tiny print clause that says if they do...there will be consequences.
Next...the counterpoint would need to be several.....why? Because different PE's offer different programs. So, if one treats the doctor badly and another well, then the argument is moot.
And who is going to present the Point...the shills out there who want the percentage for getting doctors onboard..?
Surely some of you are aware of those "friends" of you who suddenly are anxious to "help" you by calling their bud who will gladly chat with you..with no obligation about the wonders of PE..
I even got an inmail from Linked in the other day about someone wanting to buy my practice..and you know what? I think I'd rather that than one of my "so called" friends who just want to help me..so they can make a buck off my sale.
Nope, the idea just isn't going to fly.
When I went to the Review of Optometry sales pitch a couple of months ago..there was Ken Krivasic...who had recently written an article about why not to sell..and guess what? Now he's sold...hmmmm we of course asked him why write an article then suddenly sell...well, you know the answer...don't you?
Everyone has their price...and the PE simply kept upping the ante until he took it...as most of you would.
But here is the real question....as the "good" practices...whatever that is...get snatched up...will the price paid go up or down? Will fewer available cause the feeding frenzy to escalate? Or will they offer less because they have what they want...
Well, they will never have "what they want" until there are no private offices left..
Show of hands...how many of you have a buddy running a mom and pop pharmacy?
Not so many years ago they were on every street corner...now?
How about Pediatricians...come to Houston..independent peds are rare as hen's teeth?
Care to know how they snatched them up?
They made it impossible for them to refer to specialists.cause they bought the specialists...and if you aren't a part of Texas Children's Hospital network, no referral..
How does that sit? OK I can hear you already..
We don't need no stinkin OMDs.
Really? When was the last time you did a cataract surgery...? And your last injection for ARMD...or show of hands..the last scleral buckle you put on...no..you don't need no stinkin OMDS.
You are super O.D. and not one of your patients has Subretinal neo...not one...
NO boys and girls..the writing is on the wall..how will they pinch our little heads off...well it probably won't be the way I describe..no..I think they have a better idea...but I'm not discussing it here..just rest assured that folks with hundreds of millions of dollars out there aren't the same as a group of rag tagged O.Ds with no national organization that sticks up for even one of us..so guess you better not count on them to take care of it..
And the march to the edge has already started for many years...it's no longer Vision Source, Today's Vision, or even Lenscrafters that is going to spell the end....it's all of our "heros"...Ben Gaddie, Gregg Ossip, Jack Schaffer, and don't forget the Alan Glasiers...nope they have already bailed....they are at the head of the pyramid...and they are no longer the bastions of private practice they once appeared to be...
Sorry to call out a handful, but there are so many others...Tom Arnold...for one...all taking the money and heading for the door..the question is not "if" it is when...
I'm only glad to be 63 instead of 33...cause you younger folks have a long road ahead..the future pharmacists of America we ought to call you...because there will come a day...you'll be working at the CVS instead of XYZ pharmacy.
So, bring on the discussion, but good luck finding anyone who will really tell you how PE is treating them..they are without a doubt thrilled not to write another check to the landlord...they are thrilled not to make payroll...
Guess what is next? Count the years...there will be no VEE or VEW....I mean, why should they exist...who is going to wander the halls to buy a new edger? A new slit lamp...a new contact lens? Fewer and fewer decision makers mean less attendance...so mark my words..it will shut down...cost a bunch to put on that dog and pony show..and if there are no dogs to watch the ponies...no show..
Hide and watch...
it's all of our "heros"...Ben Gaddie, Gregg Ossip, Jack Schaffer, and don't forget the Alan Glasiers...nope they have already bailed....they are at the head of the pyramid...and they are no longer the bastions of private practice they once appeared to be...
I'm observing the messaging and publications, and notice they've basically turned into the marketing arm for PE. I used to love to read many of the practice management and trade magazines.......
As Dr. Allan pointed out, the faces and popular mouthpieces in Optometry all seem to work for PE now.
Joe...and this will piss off many..history repeats itself..Yep. Spot on Allan.
Yes. Get to the influencers first. Now the influencers can tell us why this good for optometry.
Good call on the "friend" trying to help out. Also good call on the future of events like VEE/VEW. No point in running a big exhibit hall like that if there are no decision makers in attendance.
I am sure they all have NDAs.
Bought and paid for by what? How many pieces of silver does it take to buy an AOA president....boy, I'm going to catch it for this one..
Joe...and this will piss off many..history repeats itself..
To be PC..I won't mention names..but look at what ....hold on now..Vision Source...did to grow it's ranks.
It bought and paid for the influencers...made them regional directors..paid them a part of your fee to tell you why this was the way to go...and it worked.
Then ..they sold out didn't they..there is nothing new under the sun..they've done this before, they will do it again..assuming there is a profession to milk..we look to these "former presidents of the bastion of professionalism.." The AOA only to find that they can be bought and paid for...I'm not a christian but I sort of think this crap goes back to biblical times..nope, nothing new....same old crap..
Bought and paid for by what? How many pieces of silver does it take to buy an AOA president....boy, I'm going to catch it for this one..
Where my issue lies is with all of the "experts" and phonies that are supposed to be our leaders that will sell the entire profession out in a heartbeat. This is why I am infinitely skeptical of ODs that push telemedicine and say that it is the future and if we don't jump on board then we will be left behind. I can't help but feel that there is often an ulterior motive behind the fearmongering.
Yep. Spot on Allan.
Yes. Get to the influencers first. Now the influencers can tell us why this is good for optometry.
Good call on the "friend" trying to help out. Also good call on the future of events like VEE/VEW. No point in running a big exhibit hall like that if there are no decision makers in attendance.
I am sure they all have NDAs.
The "problem" is, like big optical, decisions are made by none ODs. How much of a problem is it? No one knows. I've seen many private practice doctors make pretty dishonest decisions. But one thing is for certain, things are changing. I see no problem selling to the highest bidder. In fact you're stupid if you don't.I'm failing to see a problem here.
Since I started practicing in 1979..Big Optical has only grown and expanded vertically. They control Optometry. They'll continue to push whatever is best for them to sell merchandise......Online exams, opticians refracting...what ever is best for them.
I've worked hard over the last 40 years building a practice and doing Medical Optometry before I knew it was called that.
I'm approaching the end of my career and I fail to see the problem with PE buying out Private Practices. I would like to get paid for the 40 years I invested in the practice..sure I'd like to see some new OD buy my practice, maybe I could even mentor them for a while.....but that doesn't look like its happening....not sure as a new grad I'd want to buy a practice in this uncertain climate.
So what happens if I get bought out by PE at a price and deal I deem fair to me? It's still going to be an Optometric Practice...If PE changes the practice model and earns more that I've been making...good for them....people will still get eye care, and maybe I've been doing it wrong all these years. I'm gonna say it.......I'm going to do what's best for me...I'll follow the lead of the AOA and our "Leaders"
The winds are blowing in a certain way...I'm going to put my sail up and see where it blows me? I think that's the only way to find out what is going on...
Meanwhile, I filled out a form from the company Ben Gaddie is associated with about a month ago and not even an email back acknowledging receipt.....this will be fun.
ps...I will also check out people like Cleinman and maybe the Williams group to see if there are other alternatives I may like.
The "problem" is, like big optical, decisions are made by none ODs. How much of a problem is it? No one knows. I've seen many private practice doctors make pretty dishonest decisions. But one thing is for certain, things are changing. I see no problem selling to the highest bidder. In fact you're stupid if you don't.
But it's one thing to practice your whole life trying to do the best you can and sell to the highest bidder and another thing to get on a soap box about private practice, independence and even make something like BC up to separate the profession then sell to anyone that's paying the most.
I'm approaching the end of my career and I fail to see the problem with PE buying out Private Practices.
Dr. Larry,
If I was in your situation, I think I would think the exact same way. Actually, I would be thrilled big money is coming in buying. How easy is it now to sell? Super easy.
You are in a great spot to get some financial closure to your career.
Question: What would a 40 year old Dr. Larry do? To be selfish.....I'm 40. So, that's what I care about!
Question: What would a 40 year old Dr. Larry do? To be selfish.....I'm 40. So, that's what I care about!